FF5 Solos vs. Shinryu Part IV
Oct. 11th, 2017 01:42 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sirsystemerrorThe Thief
Of course being "treasure hunters" who want things they can't use, they have to rip Shinryu's lungs out. And more than likely die trying.
This job is the other one I meant when discussing Ninja when I said there's a job that needs postgame content to stand a chance against Shinryu.
Unlike that one though, this is significantly more painful. Chicken Mug only does 3800, and that's if you're in the far too dangerous for this job front row. It's halved from the back, and halved again once Mighty Guard goes up. The odds of Thief making it out alive is not that great - it has no defensive options besides Main Gauche and its theoretically overwhelming offense turns out to be not that great.
I guess this one is technically possible? It can get by the opening move, and there's nothing standing in the way but luck. Luck in dodging tons of lethal moves that it has no defense against except said luck. I'm not going to try it though, because believe it or not, there are in fact limts to my patience/masochism.
This death is simulated. But you know a job has it bad in any situation when Berserker outclasses it in said situation. It's just barely removed from insurmountable depths, though. I thought it would do better than this.
__________
The Dancer
Oh god not another class with no way to guard against the opening Tidal Wave and bad vitality
This is the setup Dancer wants to take, or optionally Coral Ring instead if avoiding postgame content. Either works - Sorceror's has much more magic evade though, while protecting against all elements including halving Tidal Wave to survivability and not making Lightning take off half your max health. Anything to tilt things your way. Hope for a lot of Sword Dances and Roulettes and nothing to screw you over! This is why Lamia's Tiara is desired over Ribbon.
The really fun part about this? If we're assuming a fully powered Chicken Knife at 97, Mighty Guard does nothing to reduce the damage in the front row. Feel free to let it use it! See how much you care. Front vs. back is an interesting dilemma - the former lets you laugh that off, but the latter is the only way to reliably survive a double physical attack, by defending during one. Considering this dickbag can occasionally get three turns to your own; I was not kidding at all when I said any job that can't get Haste is in for a bad time.
Just like Thief, the odds aren't great for this job. But it's possible. Probably more possible than Thief, actually. I actually didn't have much faith in this job at first, categorizing it with the three that are to follow, but it proved me wrong. Still a poor enough performance to go in this spot, though.
__________
The Bard
Sing a song about how this dragon is so dead~
A great job for fighting this thing, it has no problems doing damage thanks to Apollo's Harp! And it has Hide to-
-wait, GODDAMMIT. This ruins everything!! The Bard is the great Shakespearian tragedy of fighting Shinryu. If it wasn't for not being able to Hide past the Tidal Wave and tons of other threats, this would be a top class solo dragon slayer. And unlike Dancer, Bard can't equip Bone Mail to gamble on Roulette pulling it through.
Its HP is too low to tank it even with postgame content, and fighting it without Haste is suicide. Ranger could manage it due to sheer overwhelming power and Bone Mail, as could Dancer thanks to the latter. But lacking that option makes that very impractical here. Bard, or at least Apollo's Harp, is excellent for fighting this thing. In a regular party. Solo Bard is pretty much screwed, though. I guess it might be possible if Shinryu's turns line up perfectly enough so it never instantly kills or forces to constantly heal, but this is otherwise impossible for a Bard.
If it could survive though, the strategy would be to just shred it with Apollo's Harp, and heal with Main Gauche on as needed. Still, the lack of Hide hurts and limits its options.
__________
The Oracle
Seriously, what were they on when they thought this one up?
This job can barely survive the opening Tidal Wave while maintaining Haste with postgame equipment. But from there at 97, using Predict with Bartz will produce Eruptions. Maybe Level 99, where Bartz will have 860? Well, you saw what Shinryu's L3 Flare can do to a Chemist with Shell. It would not end very well. And though it would be badass just for thinking outside the box, you can't use Lenna or Krile here - they would indeed have MP ending in 0 for Cleansing at level 97, but they would also have less HP (6376) and I'm pretty sure that makes them unable to survive even with Royal Crown/Robe of Lords.
So how about Berserk? It can inflict it with Power Staff, but unfortunately, it has no way to lower or prevent the damage so it's not a one-two combo. This one is in the same boat as Bard - unable to win here without TASing it and even so it'd be a nightmare.
__________
The Geomancer
It's a good thing it's in those pyjamas, because Shinryu is about to send this godawful job to sleep right away. Permanently.
...wait, it's alive? Huh. Didn't even need postgame equipment for that. So it can use Hermes Sandals here.
Still, this fact changes nothing. Geomancer's offense is absolutely pathetic - almost all of its Terrain abilities don't help you here, attacking with the Rune Bell is feeble, you can't use Chicken Knife in this fight, and even if you could it'd disappoint. It can't get Shell to mitigate the likes of Evil Eye and Roulette, it can't get Protect to dampen the physicals, it can't wear Bone Mail, it's completely worthless!!
In this fight, everything I hate about Geomancer. It's fine for clearing trash in parties, but when it comes to bosses, it can be helpless or reduced to item duty due to the unreliability and non-Heavy hitting centralness of Terrain abilities. And in fights like this you can't afford to get away with it.
__________
So of every job class that went up against Shinryu solo, 23/26 are able to get the job done - although some of these are unlikely wins. One more than I was expecting, actually. Maybe even some of the other three can theoretically done, but if so require a simply inexcusable amount of luck. Like, way way worse than Thief and Dancer.
It just goes to show that just about every class has some sort of way of dealing with this thing. Shinryu is not nearly as terrifying a fight as some make it out to be! Many different party compositions can take this thing on, relevant when it comes to fiestas. In particular I heard of a fellow who did like nine fiesta runs one year, and he was able to defeat Shinryu with all nine of them. And they don't even necessarily need to be horribly overleveled like some of the classes had to go to here to win.
Due to that fact though, a proper tier list when it comes to solos fighting Shinryu is difficult to put together, unlike with Gil Turtle. Nevertheless, you can get an idea of what it takes to defeat Shinryu from this and what each job can do. One special case - any party with Berserk access can fight it by doing so and reviving faster than Shinryu can kill. And even if you have to push your way through, it's not that bad. Simply things like Protect/Shell access, ways to deal damage quickly, and especially ways to employ Haste, can do a ton for you.
This isn't to say the fight is free. But this is where Shinryu is fairly well-designed in that regard. Like most of FF5, there's often a solution to a problem. You simply need to know what you're doing and in the case of variant or otherwise restricted parties, what it's capable of. All it takes is some knowledge and maybe some perseverance, and you can make it through.
And that's where the next superboss comes in. The requirements there are going to be stricter - said person who did a ton of fiestas and beat Shinryu on all of them? He did beat Omega with all of them too...except one. So yes, I'm going to try that fight too with all solos. Sometime. But no guarantee that as many will be able to pull this off.
Thanks for reading, and I hope you enjoyed this edition of all vs. one.
Index
Of course being "treasure hunters" who want things they can't use, they have to rip Shinryu's lungs out. And more than likely die trying.
This job is the other one I meant when discussing Ninja when I said there's a job that needs postgame content to stand a chance against Shinryu.
Unlike that one though, this is significantly more painful. Chicken Mug only does 3800, and that's if you're in the far too dangerous for this job front row. It's halved from the back, and halved again once Mighty Guard goes up. The odds of Thief making it out alive is not that great - it has no defensive options besides Main Gauche and its theoretically overwhelming offense turns out to be not that great.
I guess this one is technically possible? It can get by the opening move, and there's nothing standing in the way but luck. Luck in dodging tons of lethal moves that it has no defense against except said luck. I'm not going to try it though, because believe it or not, there are in fact limts to my patience/masochism.
This death is simulated. But you know a job has it bad in any situation when Berserker outclasses it in said situation. It's just barely removed from insurmountable depths, though. I thought it would do better than this.
__________
The Dancer
Oh god not another class with no way to guard against the opening Tidal Wave and bad vitality
This is the setup Dancer wants to take, or optionally Coral Ring instead if avoiding postgame content. Either works - Sorceror's has much more magic evade though, while protecting against all elements including halving Tidal Wave to survivability and not making Lightning take off half your max health. Anything to tilt things your way. Hope for a lot of Sword Dances and Roulettes and nothing to screw you over! This is why Lamia's Tiara is desired over Ribbon.
The really fun part about this? If we're assuming a fully powered Chicken Knife at 97, Mighty Guard does nothing to reduce the damage in the front row. Feel free to let it use it! See how much you care. Front vs. back is an interesting dilemma - the former lets you laugh that off, but the latter is the only way to reliably survive a double physical attack, by defending during one. Considering this dickbag can occasionally get three turns to your own; I was not kidding at all when I said any job that can't get Haste is in for a bad time.
Just like Thief, the odds aren't great for this job. But it's possible. Probably more possible than Thief, actually. I actually didn't have much faith in this job at first, categorizing it with the three that are to follow, but it proved me wrong. Still a poor enough performance to go in this spot, though.
__________
The Bard
Sing a song about how this dragon is so dead~
A great job for fighting this thing, it has no problems doing damage thanks to Apollo's Harp! And it has Hide to-
-wait, GODDAMMIT. This ruins everything!! The Bard is the great Shakespearian tragedy of fighting Shinryu. If it wasn't for not being able to Hide past the Tidal Wave and tons of other threats, this would be a top class solo dragon slayer. And unlike Dancer, Bard can't equip Bone Mail to gamble on Roulette pulling it through.
Its HP is too low to tank it even with postgame content, and fighting it without Haste is suicide. Ranger could manage it due to sheer overwhelming power and Bone Mail, as could Dancer thanks to the latter. But lacking that option makes that very impractical here. Bard, or at least Apollo's Harp, is excellent for fighting this thing. In a regular party. Solo Bard is pretty much screwed, though. I guess it might be possible if Shinryu's turns line up perfectly enough so it never instantly kills or forces to constantly heal, but this is otherwise impossible for a Bard.
If it could survive though, the strategy would be to just shred it with Apollo's Harp, and heal with Main Gauche on as needed. Still, the lack of Hide hurts and limits its options.
__________
The Oracle
Seriously, what were they on when they thought this one up?
This job can barely survive the opening Tidal Wave while maintaining Haste with postgame equipment. But from there at 97, using Predict with Bartz will produce Eruptions. Maybe Level 99, where Bartz will have 860? Well, you saw what Shinryu's L3 Flare can do to a Chemist with Shell. It would not end very well. And though it would be badass just for thinking outside the box, you can't use Lenna or Krile here - they would indeed have MP ending in 0 for Cleansing at level 97, but they would also have less HP (6376) and I'm pretty sure that makes them unable to survive even with Royal Crown/Robe of Lords.
So how about Berserk? It can inflict it with Power Staff, but unfortunately, it has no way to lower or prevent the damage so it's not a one-two combo. This one is in the same boat as Bard - unable to win here without TASing it and even so it'd be a nightmare.
__________
The Geomancer
It's a good thing it's in those pyjamas, because Shinryu is about to send this godawful job to sleep right away. Permanently.
...wait, it's alive? Huh. Didn't even need postgame equipment for that. So it can use Hermes Sandals here.
Still, this fact changes nothing. Geomancer's offense is absolutely pathetic - almost all of its Terrain abilities don't help you here, attacking with the Rune Bell is feeble, you can't use Chicken Knife in this fight, and even if you could it'd disappoint. It can't get Shell to mitigate the likes of Evil Eye and Roulette, it can't get Protect to dampen the physicals, it can't wear Bone Mail, it's completely worthless!!
In this fight, everything I hate about Geomancer. It's fine for clearing trash in parties, but when it comes to bosses, it can be helpless or reduced to item duty due to the unreliability and non-Heavy hitting centralness of Terrain abilities. And in fights like this you can't afford to get away with it.
__________
So of every job class that went up against Shinryu solo, 23/26 are able to get the job done - although some of these are unlikely wins. One more than I was expecting, actually. Maybe even some of the other three can theoretically done, but if so require a simply inexcusable amount of luck. Like, way way worse than Thief and Dancer.
It just goes to show that just about every class has some sort of way of dealing with this thing. Shinryu is not nearly as terrifying a fight as some make it out to be! Many different party compositions can take this thing on, relevant when it comes to fiestas. In particular I heard of a fellow who did like nine fiesta runs one year, and he was able to defeat Shinryu with all nine of them. And they don't even necessarily need to be horribly overleveled like some of the classes had to go to here to win.
Due to that fact though, a proper tier list when it comes to solos fighting Shinryu is difficult to put together, unlike with Gil Turtle. Nevertheless, you can get an idea of what it takes to defeat Shinryu from this and what each job can do. One special case - any party with Berserk access can fight it by doing so and reviving faster than Shinryu can kill. And even if you have to push your way through, it's not that bad. Simply things like Protect/Shell access, ways to deal damage quickly, and especially ways to employ Haste, can do a ton for you.
This isn't to say the fight is free. But this is where Shinryu is fairly well-designed in that regard. Like most of FF5, there's often a solution to a problem. You simply need to know what you're doing and in the case of variant or otherwise restricted parties, what it's capable of. All it takes is some knowledge and maybe some perseverance, and you can make it through.
And that's where the next superboss comes in. The requirements there are going to be stricter - said person who did a ton of fiestas and beat Shinryu on all of them? He did beat Omega with all of them too...except one. So yes, I'm going to try that fight too with all solos. Sometime. But no guarantee that as many will be able to pull this off.
Thanks for reading, and I hope you enjoyed this edition of all vs. one.
Index
